周恩来、邓颖超与国际民主妇联主席科东夫人谈话 (Conversation between Zhou Enlai, Deng Yingchao and WIDF President Eugenie Cotton), 1955

=== [PDF page 1] === 多傲和平友好工悻* 〈一九五五年五月二十二哥〉 周恩事且理(时下向柏:周); j运壁夫人是否住 r 一个 月了? 眩仨摧·戈噩去人〈以 F 椅辑，~~) s 因为世界租平大 会延期，;才得事住一些日子。 国z 肴的地方平事吧?乖望 U 后能再来中国也 戈z 愿意以后再来，但象我这样年缸无法假寇，束中 国后反觉得自己年轻了 α 那跚跚 [11出(时下两葫t~f):来一次年轻一鼠，希望 的， r 抗再来，童年轻些。 先=一应高兴再来。这眩辈牢以为时间短革能辛苦太 多的东西，但是由于妇联的朋友们的热情步施行组织得很 好，着丁很多东西。 周 z 蛐们站住署了坏的设有? 先 z 没有。 申 边是同国际民主姻支联什合主距、世界如平理事会副主部、怯且四 阳女联盟甜 EF;ι: 如带戈将;k人骂的强 i~' 节录。 140 === [PDF page 2] === 周z 这样她们就醋、蹒丁一番。我们还有很多路后的 京西，看 f 进步的再君略后的，才能全面，才能有出由器 阳到进步的过程￠中国大 J、事，要经过相当长的时期才 能战亚薄后的状甜。 巴朗曹尼虫 λ 〔 11632 我们看到坏的了 Jill 找们不觉 得郎，因;如我们相信明后天就会变好的岱 周:也不一定。现在从提展 7.1<平说，同工业最发达 的回事比，在们的机辙化水平距现代化还很远，平{又要 -1· 几年，要半个世主己才能赶上先进的国家。 先:我这民班上了一常生报好的眼 F 看到中国人民根 勇敢，不等待条件齐全就进行建设， 1年们工撞上机器很 少，用人担土担串串 你们还盖了许多大学。 罔z 中国人民是勇敢的、勤劳的。陆国已经工业化， 我们比起法国来是需盾的。法国人民也是曲情、勇敢的。 :1::钩:们克服了落后的因素，但法国还没有。 周E 娃的，因此曲:们的斗争更难苦，中国人民是同情 体们和支持体们的心 古t: 中桂两国人民是直好的，不但挂国的知识界 p 全 体黯国人民对中国人民都是!可惰的。 周 z 法国在西方是个有古老立明的回事，就靠中国 在京方一样告你们一方面工业根宜边，这是有利条件 F 但 在另一方面还有许多困难F 尤其是在今天的国际局静下。 中国与怯国比 p 在文化上、经济上是路后的岱 141 === [PDF page 3] === 觉: il~ 闰是有困准的，很多报多。 周; r叫此伴们的斗争是垠苦的 t ·f~1. il~ J-1ij 人民 JI 周敢 的、热情的、智慧的，一起能战胜阻啦。 戈z 我们也这样柑桔白我们理在还只有点滴的刷刷， 我们强争取眈界峙亲 k 会 [117J 在巴黎召 JFQ 周E J 怪的;束?野、部是由点捕汇集而成 c 二十五年前 我和事畅 (118) rliJ 志到过法国步战的时出同人民有强悄。 章: 2直 C119J 同志最近也去过拮园?在法国交 f il: 二喜剧在 ω 业z 和平组辑和妇女组织要在怯目开会啻常会遇到 困磁，因为怯国政府寻寻到 1~1fJj;击了这么多好!白，在感到 卫在安。 周:不一窟。世界母 2巨大会在挂国召开，各因朋革 到挂国去，不但与法国人民做朋灰，如果挂国政府主张租 平，站拉国政府的和平主张也是玉持的。 那z 昨天有悄息说，七月七日在巴罄召开世界碍亲 大会。 戈z 我到北京就听到这个消息，很高兴。 周z 开好这次大会，法国妇女的责任很重。母京们 的责任不仅是抚养孩子们成长步还要教育他的发挥大革 命 (120) 的革命传统。 戈 z 我们把希望撒在年轻的一代，近几年人口的增 长比过去快。回tX世界大战死人很事~ 1R 多优持人物!斟 牲了?损失且很大的 p 战 f门桔盟能有更多的年轻人。 142 === [PDF page 4] === 蹲 z 法国在南民大战中损失很大 F 克人很多贯所队陆 国人民更懂得和平的i::1J 击，就象中国要建设，需要布于环 坡一样抄 先z 总理先吨，件时和平事业贡献很大，在 H 内瓦的 努力，使和平事业…夭夭杜大。 周z 我个人做得少穿主要是中国人民的力量 Q 戈z 怎样使人民盹祟悴力量雪是你的工作创 罔z 不是个人而是提 iι;是在毛泽班主席领导~ - F11战 先z 现在中国古亚苦的比任何时 f民都姐人感到有力量。 的Q 日内瓦会议 (52) 是欧撒入了挥中国的开始。 周s 在日内而且，我们代表团接待了许多怯国人民代 表郎，始我们留下根眼割的印象。陆挝人民在金世界都 有朋草，从这一点看辈费法挝人民的斗争不是现立的。 先t 我们几个人中的亚历山太犬人 (12 1)是法国西部 省份的，她那里也握了代表自到口内瓦稳为结束越南战 争 (122马拉国人民做了很大拇力 p 企国人民都叫它是肮脏 的战争。 周z 日内瓦金山达成褂议满足了法国人民的要求， 孟戴斯一弗朗黯汇 123) 在这件事上还是做得好的。 -;t::就;在那个时候好，到美国目陌温度就大变了。 用z 做一件好事也好。人民要推萌自己的政府多做 好事 G 雄如 f黯荒夫人[124) 是否讯识制;监敢先生?也是里 143 === [PDF page 5] === 昂市长，在议会里是主张正义的，我们常昕到他的声音。 辑~撞撞去 λ( 以下简陈维):他年纪太了 F 不可能 有很多时间为和平报择了，这是遗憾。 周:他是!f!.昂市齿，中国代表团到型品费力 II 博览会 就是他邀请的，如看到他，请代我向她敖谢。 辑z 在一直Z 把你的口信带到。 戈1 回去要.IX视也得到国际相平奖金。 周:她是个和平战士步也是法国的爱国齿。 先:我们很难过童失去了法奇(125) ，他来 i立中国，非 常热是中国。他说在中国的施行结恤留下了一生中最好 的凹'协她是个坚强的和平战士忌 题:失掉也是很难过的。拉国人民有自尊心和自信 心费一直会出现更多的和平战士和蛊罔者心希特勒摆略 浩国?法国人民性有屈服步进行了抵抗，包捅了各方面的 人物也八十多年中，德国人使略法国三位口 24:0 ，挂国人民 都投有屈服。不屈服的民族，散人是压不倒的。中国有 经瑜，我们一百茹年受压迫，但我们没有屈服?掉于站起 束了日我们平象怯国安敌人敢悔、压迫仅几年的工犬费而 是一百年。凡是敢于抵抗敌人的民族都会胜利的。挂国 过去强大过，我相信将最一定会更强大。 先z 我们也是这样带望的。怯圈妇女也相中国妇女 一样，大家组织起到走了。国际脑联口27J 成立起束了，我很 荣丰担任主席，在这个大家庭中 F 在各国，我有许多女儿。 144 === [PDF page 6] === 周 z 时际妇女组织如果把全世界大多数妇女摆摆起 班费就平得了，男人就要听悴们的话了，就打不起，仗了。 先z 母亲们是可以做许多工作的。 周t 妇女和儿童组组起来p 就超过了世界人口的半 数， tF 敬的男人就打平起仗了。 先E 我们召开世界母京大会要靠亚非会议 (103) 一样 提括求同存异啕精神。 JIl l 世界各国政情制度、意识形态各有不同，很难一 班起束，我们整找共同点贯比如妇女要和平量就是共同的。 戈:大家的许多要非黠相同的，行动也是互相配合 的。 周z 可以包括得直广泛晤，把马之间的保留啻不发展争 论，而去找共同点。相信这次母亲大会能开挥更好?有露 这位有才、有德、有盟验的主席领导，一定能在功。 先z 企世界各地的妇女都在努如罔际妇联合有更 大的虫展，尤其我到丁中国的几个城市同各地妇联负责 人座谈了工作，参加了群众集会，使技体会到精神都是一 致的。~国、意大利、德酶的妇女都是以同样的精神在 工作。 周t 拉国人民要多做德国人民的工作，甜、德人民应 该争取在一起保卫相平 p 这工作是很重要的楼 攘z 我不同意。 蹄z 为什么 Y 145 === [PDF page 7] === 攘 z 没有占百法租德国人自错。 周 z 但是还是要争取团结份我束战饿我们的经验吧。 远古年班最欺{鼠压迫我们的是邻国日本。一八九四年 中日战争 C3D 后，割去台湾，后京卫搞了个吁南圳囡飞以后 又捏占中国棍大的一部分F 中罔人死胡平是棋万计?而是 以百月叶，人民赳日本非常愤慨。日本投降后，梅介石发 动内战，人民被迫反抗。解放战争中有许事日中二人在战 们军队中从事技术工作，还有医生、护士等费受面的战士 请他们医拍 F 我们报信任他们口日卒工程阳在工厂帮我们 搞生产?帮我们鸭技人员搞试验，找扪也都相信他们。七 八年的工犬 p 由眈向我们的人变成我们的朋友了。前年和 去年盟红?于台盟堪回国的日苦?有两耳八千多人嘈许多 人在报上写文章，开合演讲，宣传中国人民甜甜们友好。 去年辛德全 028J 由日， l:I非人民耐拙热器玫跑?出现了一 种完全新的气锐。平但人民要来往?人民还要影响政雨量 改变政府的在度，两国才能友好。 擅自对他'fn 都可目信任吗? 周 z 这些日本人大部分都可剖信任，主要是要政变 日本人欺悔我们的态度和中自人对日本人愤慨的态度， 这样隅国才能且好ω 我有两点意9!:第一点，问底继如惊 呆犬人的看 it ， 不是所有人部是可以前任由~;第二点，如 果政府态度不改变，那是危险的。人民的态度可以影响政 府，政府乎饵/1~，号虑人民的意见费因为它主要争取选票。第 146 === [PDF page 8] === 二:大大战后的新情况是人民;工J 量强大，世野性的工、吉、 妇坦织都成立起幸了，这是大陆前所挂有的白 戈=凡年嘉德国人民的力量在发展着岱 周 t 工作是艰苦的，会遇到报茹困难暨法国人民是勇 敢的，体们两位老母亲王129) 为年轻人做了好幢样， 3阵束后 代会感谢你们的。 罐.: ~定:改变他们费品细教育他们?由现在挂在教育胞 们?反而把船 f(] 武装起来了。 蹲 z 武提，~也们，我们是反玲的，我们要事舶工作，即 假武装起来?也要增加她们的拥璀。今天平合象希特勒 挠怡的时幢?现在即使宜动战争，她们国内也会有人起来 反甫的。 先z 我带个例子。今年…月罔际民主阳联日内瓦理 事告邀请法国社会党一个议员的女儿彝捆 p 她的哥哥被 德国人班放lfri 见了，后来母女生活困难，一直时德国人棍 仇恨α 开理事会时 F 她 i弘我的位于习主要排在德国妇女旁 边，我不会租她们打招呼的。但通过会说她的思想有了 转变，衰草过去一些年月白过了，希望我们今后服收地草委 加保卫租平的斗争心 用z 削子扭动人。少想些个人悲痛，茹想些时大事 有强的事。挠的人平会再沾了，我们的费力是睛里四后 少扭人 c 盐2 且-国和德国的妇女交往很多乡证国妇女开会，且 === [PDF page 9] === 注 i者踊国妇女参烟，德国妇女也请法国妇女去?这样站榷 i也有好处。有一次开会，请了德国妇女垂加，一个德国妇 女…点也丰知道德国人在法菌制造了仇恨，她说声让我们 悟过去忘iC眠。在腥的好些法黯妇女都幸示平同意。她 回去后，捏了根久 F 写信来道谢，因为这次盘棋使他知道 了许事过去不知道的事情，她表示今后要费力争取和平。 111: 法国妇女争取~结德国居女并革是示弱，而是 强大的表现，因为全世界人民都支持挂国人民悻卫手u唱 的工作。如果棉田再侵略法国，全世界都会起来且时它。 戈z 我们很直在过?我们曾为反对批准巴黎协寇叫嚣的 作了很事斗争 F 结果这个协定还是被批准 Y ， 这也许是新 的斗争的开始巾 JIl:如果批准前 p 我们斗争的任务在于阻止它批准， 那么，批准后斗争就要呆取榻的方式，斗争是各种各样 的。 i啻戈主是夫人将我们琦法菌人民的直谊、尊敬和热爱# 转达给法国人民。 我将束如能副怯国去，带望再见到舔 1no 先z 不管营、样，我一意要把你时我们珍贵的鼓励告 诉踏国人民。 148

=== [Page 1] === Conversation for Peace and Friendship (22 May 1955) Premier Zhou Enlai [Chou En-lai] (hereafter Zhou): Madame Cotton, have you now been staying for a month? Madame Eugénie Cotton [Eugénie Cotton] (hereafter Cotton): Because the World Peace Congress was postponed, I have been able to stay a few days longer. Zhou: Are you comfortable with the places you have seen? I hope you can come to China again later. Cotton: I would like to come again later, but someone of my age cannot make plans; after coming to China, however, I actually feel younger. [Unreadable – Deng Yingchao (hereafter Deng)]: Come once and be a little younger; we hope you will come again and become still younger. Cotton: I would be glad to come again. I had thought that in such a short time I could not see very much, but thanks to the warm hospitality of the friends of the Women's Federation, and the very good organisation of the trip, I saw a great deal. Zhou: Did you see any bad things? Cotton: No. [Editorial note, garbled: Eugénie Cotton, vice-president/co-chair of the Women's International Democratic Federation, vice-chair of the World Peace Council, chair of the Union of French Women – excerpts of her talk. Page 140.] === [Page 2] === Zhou: In that way they [the women] can compare and learn. We still have many backward things; only by looking at both the advanced and the backward can one be comprehensive and see the process from backward to advanced. China is big and its affairs are many; it will take quite a long period of time before the backward condition can be overcome. [Unreadable: Deng(?)] We have seen bad things, but we do not feel dispirited, because we believe that tomorrow or the day after it will become better. Zhou: Not necessarily. In terms of development level now, compared with the countries with the most developed industry, our level of mechanisation is still very far from modernisation; it will take [several] years, half a century, to catch up with the advanced countries. Cotton: With my one lifetime I have seen very good things. The Chinese people are very brave; they do not wait until all conditions are in place before building. In your factories there are few machines and people carry earth in baskets on shoulder poles. You have also built many universities. Zhou: The Chinese people are brave and hardworking. France has already industrialised; compared with France we are backward. The French people too are warm-hearted and brave. [Unreadable] Cotton: We have overcome the elements of backwardness, but France has not yet. Zhou: Quite so; therefore your struggle is harder. The Chinese people sympathise with you and support you. Cotton: The peoples of China and France are very good to each other; not only the French intellectuals, the whole French people is sympathetic to the Chinese people. Zhou: France is an ancient civilised country in the West, as China is in the East. On the one hand your industry is very developed, which is an advantage, but on the other hand there are many difficulties, especially in today's international situation. Compared with France, China is backward culturally and economically. === [Page 3] === Cotton: [Unreadable] there are difficulties too, a great many. Zhou: So your struggle is very hard. [Unreadable] The people are brave, warm and wise and will surely overcome obstacles. Cotton: We think so too. At present we have only drops [of strength], and we are striving for the World Mothers' Congress [note 117] to be held in Paris. Zhou: [Unreadable: roughly, "That is right; drops gather into a stream."] Twenty-five years ago I and Comrade [Unreadable] (118) went to France on a work-study programme and have deep feelings for the French people. [Unreadable] Comrade (119) recently also went to France? Cotton: When peace organisations and women's organisations hold meetings in France they often meet with difficulties, because the French government [Unreadable] Zhou: Not necessarily. If the World Mothers' Congress is held in France, friends from all countries will go to France, not only to make friends with the French people; if the French government stands for peace, then the French government's peace position is also supported. [Unreadable – Deng?]: Yesterday there was news that the World Mothers' Congress would be held in Paris on 7 July. Cotton: I heard this news when I arrived in Beijing and was very glad. Zhou: French women bear a heavy responsibility for making this congress a success. The responsibility of mothers is not only to bring up children but also to teach them to carry forward the revolutionary tradition of the Great Revolution (120). Cotton: We scatter our hopes on the younger generation; in recent years the population has grown faster than before. In the world wars very many people died, many outstanding figures were sacrificed, and the losses were great; we hope there will be more young people. === [Page 4] === [Unreadable] France suffered great losses in the two world wars; many people died, and the French people understand all the more the value of peace, just as China needs a peaceful environment to build. Cotton: Premier, you have contributed greatly to the cause of peace; your efforts at Geneva have made the cause of peace grow greater day by day. Zhou: Personally I have done little; it is mainly the strength of the Chinese people. Cotton: How do you make the people's strength [Unreadable] – that is your work. Zhou: It is not individuals but the organisation; it is under the leadership of Chairman Mao Zedong. Cotton: Now China feels more powerful than at any time. The Geneva Conference (52) was the beginning of Europe's [Unreadable] China. Zhou: At Geneva our delegation received many representatives of the French people, who left us a deep impression. The Laotian people [sic: probably Vietnamese] have friends all over the world; from this point of view, the struggle of the French people is not isolated. Cotton: Among us, Madame Alexandre (121) is from a province in western France; there she made great efforts for the cause of ending the Vietnam war (122) – the entire French people call it a dirty war. Zhou: The Geneva agreement satisfied the demands of the French people; Mendès France (123) did well in this matter. Cotton: [Unreadable] It was just at that time; when it came to the United States, the temperature changed greatly. Zhou: Doing one good thing is also good. The people must push their own government to do more good things. For example, does Madame [Unreadable] (124) know Mr Mayor of Lyon? === [Page 5] === [Zhou:] ... the Mayor of Lyon, who in parliament advocates justice; we often hear his voice. [Unreadable – translator/interpreter]: He is too old to have much time to work for peace; that is a pity. Zhou: He is the Mayor of Lyon; the Chinese delegation went to the Lyon Fair at his invitation. If you see him, please convey my thanks to him. [Unreadable]: I will bring your message. Cotton: [Unreadable: on returning, he deserves to receive the international peace prize.] Zhou: She is a fighter for peace and also a French patriot. Cotton: We were very sad to lose Fajit [Unreadable: Fagit/Fabre?] (125); he came to China and was extremely fond of China. He said that the trip to China left the best memories of his life. She was a firm fighter for peace. Zhou: Losing [her] is also very sad. The French people have self-respect and self-confidence and will always produce more fighters for peace and patriots. When Hitler invaded France the French people did not yield but resisted, including figures from all walks of life; in the more than eighty years of three German invasions (1870, 1914, 1940), the French people did not yield. A people that does not yield cannot be crushed by the enemy. China has experience: we were oppressed for a hundred-odd years, but we did not yield and finally stood up. We were bullied and oppressed by the enemy not for a few years but for a hundred. Any nation that dares to resist the enemy will win. France was strong in the past, and I believe it will be even stronger in the future. Cotton: We hope so too. French women, like Chinese women, have all organised themselves. The Women's International [WIDF] (127) has been founded and I am honoured to be its president; in this big family, in all countries, I have many daughters. === [Page 6] === Zhou: If international women's organisations unite the majority of women of the world, they will win peace; the men will have to listen to them and will not be able to fight wars. Cotton: Mothers can do a lot of work. Zhou: Women and children organised together exceed half of the world's population; the enemy's men would then not be able to wage war. Cotton: In convening the World Mothers' Congress we have to rely on the spirit of "seeking common ground while reserving differences" as at the Asian-African Conference (103). Zhou: The political systems and ideologies of countries differ and it is hard to bring everyone together; we must seek common points, for example that women want peace is a common point. Cotton: Many of our demands are the same and our actions coordinate with one another. Zhou: It can be very broad; reserve differences and do not develop disputes but look for common points. I believe this Mothers' Congress can be held very well; with a chair as talented, virtuous and experienced as you to lead it, it will certainly succeed. Cotton: Women everywhere in the world are striving for the WIDF to develop further, and especially I have been to several cities in China and talked with the heads of local women's federations and attended mass rallies, which made me feel that the spirit is the same. Women of France, Italy and Germany all work in the same spirit. Zhou: The French people should do more work among the German people; the French and German peoples should strive to be together in defending peace; this work is very important. [Unreadable – Cotton?]: I do not agree. Zhou: Why? === [Page 7] === Cotton: [Unreadable] not all Germans are guilty. Zhou: Even so we must strive for unity; let me give our experience. For the last several decades, the one that bullied and oppressed us most was neighbouring Japan. After the Sino-Japanese war of 1894 (31) it took Taiwan, later [Unreadable], and afterwards occupied a very large part of China; Chinese people died not in tens of thousands but in the hundreds of thousands, and the people were extremely indignant at Japan. After Japan surrendered, Chiang Kai-shek launched a civil war, and the people were forced to resist. In the war of liberation many Japanese worked on technical matters in our army, and there were also doctors, nurses and other fighters; we asked them to treat us, and we trusted them. Japanese engineers helped us in factories with production and helped our technicians with experiments, and we trusted them too. After seven or eight years of work, those who were once the ones oppressing us have become our friends. In the year before last and last year, Japanese returning [from China] numbered more than two or three thousand; many wrote articles in the newspapers and gave speeches, promoting friendship between the Chinese people and themselves. Last year the Japanese delegation [Unreadable] (128) came to China, and Sino-Japanese popular enthusiasm created a completely new atmosphere. Not only must the peoples exchange visits; the people must also influence the government to change its attitude, so that the two countries can be friendly. Cotton: Can all of them be trusted? Zhou: Most of these Japanese can be trusted. The main thing is to change the attitude of Japanese in bullying us and of Chinese in feeling indignant towards Japanese; only then can the two countries be friendly. I have two points: first, one must not generalise [Unreadable]: not all people can be trusted; second, if the government's attitude does not change, it is dangerous. The attitude of the people can influence the government; the government takes the opinion of the people into account because it mainly strives for votes. First ... === [Page 8] === Second, the new situation after the Second World War is that the people's strength is great and world organisations of workers and women have all been founded, which is unprecedented. Cotton: In recent years the strength of the German people has been growing. Zhou: The work is arduous and will meet many difficulties; the French people are brave; you two old mothers (129) set a fine example for the young, and later generations will thank you. [Unreadable – Cotton?]: [Unreadable] changing them, educating them; now [Unreadable] instead they are arming them. Zhou: Arming them – we are opposed to [it] and we must do the work; even if they are armed, we must increase their [Unreadable]. Today it is not like the time of Hitler's rule; even if they launched a war now, there would be people in their country who would rise up in opposition. Cotton: I will give an example. In January this year the Geneva council of the WIDF invited the daughter of a French Socialist Party deputy. Her brother had been taken away by the Germans and did not return, and mother and daughter afterwards lived in hardship and always hated the Germans. At the council meeting she asked that my seat be arranged mainly next to German women; she would not greet them. But through the meeting her thinking changed, and she said that some years had passed and hoped that in future we would participate in the struggle to defend peace. Zhou: That example is moving. Think less of personal sorrow, think more of great matters [Unreadable]. The people who have been taken will not return; our efforts are so that fewer people are [harmed] in future. [Unreadable]: There are many exchanges between French and German women; French women hold meetings and [German women are invited] === [Page 9] === ... German women take part, and German women also invite French women to go there; this too has benefits. At one meeting German women were invited to take part; one German woman did not know at all that the Germans had created hatred in France, and said: let us forget the past. Quite a few French women present did not agree. After she went back she thought for a long time and wrote a letter of thanks, because this meeting had let her know many things she had not known before, and she said she would strive for peace in future. Zhou: French women's efforts to unite with German women are not a sign of weakness but of strength, because people all over the world support the French people in defending peace. If Germany invaded France again, the whole world would rise up against it. Cotton: We have lived through it. We struggled a great deal against ratification of the Paris Agreements, yet the agreement was ratified; perhaps this is the beginning of a new struggle. Zhou: If before ratification the task of our struggle was to prevent ratification, then after ratification the struggle must take new forms; struggle comes in many kinds. Please, Madame Cotton, convey to the French people our friendship, respect and love. If I can come to France, I hope to see you again. Cotton: Whatever happens, I will certainly tell the French people about the precious encouragement you have given us. 148 [Translator's note: OCR of this Chinese document is very noisy; passages in brackets are conjectural or unreadable. Footnote numbers in parentheses refer to editorial notes not included in the OCR.]